After Iraq and Afghanistan, why would Libya go any better?

The Flying Rodent despairs off the ease with which supposedly sensible people embrace yet another halfbaked plan to bomb the democracy into a country:

Honestly. I thought that pretty much the only good thing that came out of the catastrophes of the last decade was a general awareness that war is a Big Deal; a last resort, an option that we don’t use lightly. Now it turns out that we don’t even have that, and that we’re still primed to go off like Two-Push Charlie the nineteen-year-old porno addict in a lapdancing club when somebody whispers airstrikes.

One of his commenters is more cynical:

It looks as if Iraq has had the opposite effect – it’s set an incredibly low bar.

In Iraq we walked into an obvious disaster and it all panned out exactly as opponents of the war had predicted. It will be a long time before a war *quite* that stupid is embarked on again. However, it means that the standard for deciding whether to go to war is now “Is this a less stupid idea than invading Iraq was?”. Bombing Libya passes this incredibly easy test, so off we go.

This certainly seems to be why Juan Cole supports the war against Khadaffi: because it’s nothing like the invasion of Iraq. The only thing Cole seems to have really learned from that debacle is how to blame the left for not being gung-ho enough.

It’s been …interesting… to see how quickly people like Cole, Conor Foley or Aaron “Zunguzungu” Bady have forgotten or discarded their objections to the Wars on Afghanistan and Iraq and put their faith in the same people who fucked up then. It’s tempting to explain this in ideological terms, as liberals versus leftists, but that’s not quite the case.

The War on Iraq became such a clusterfuck that almost everybody sane whose job did not depend on ignoring what kind of clusterfuck it was sooner or later opposed it. In the process the genuine differences between various kinds of opponents got elided as we made common cause against the war. The same happened with Afghanistan, if less so. One of the things that got shoved under the carpet was the simple fact that quite a few people had no real qualms about wars humanitarian interventions, but just opposed these particular interventions. They still believed in intervention as a tool and might disagree about where and when to use it, but not about the necessity to have it available as a tool for responsible governments. In short, these were people who did continue to trust their own governments to act morally responsible once the people who had shown themselves not to be able to do so were out of power.

The rest of us on the other hand have learned the lesson never to trust any government with this power, as we have seen what happens if we do. We don’t see Iraq and Afghanistan as sad blotches on an otherwise good record, but as what usually happens when the west decides something needs to be done.

And the evidence is overwhelmingly on our side — about the only relatively succesful military intervention of the past two decades is the British involvement in Sierra Leone, while opposed to that is the mess in what used to be Yugoslavia, Somalia, the Congo, Afghanistan, Rwanda, Iraq… Why would Libya be any different?

Mr Blair goes to Tripoli

Tony and Khadaffi in better days

Jamie reads the close ties between Blair and Khadaffi back in the record:

Libyan sources insist, however, that Blair has visited Libya half a dozen times since stepping down as P.M. (Doyle declines to comment on this assertion, but does say that Blair visited Libya once in the 18-month period ending November 2010.) But Blair’s employer, J.P. Morgan, does have commercial relationships with Libya. Three senior British officials, speaking on condition of anonymity, say that Blair has made numerous trips to Libya since leaving Downing Street, at least partly on behalf of the bank. “The Blair magic still works with Qaddafi,” one of these officials observes. “Qaddafi will drop everything to see Blair.” Saif al-Islam, Qaddafi’s probable heir, said last summer that Blair was “a personal family friend” and added that Blair had visited Libya “many, many times” since leaving office.

One such visit took place in June 2010. “His plane landed at Mitiga airport”—a few miles east of Tripoli and used by V.I.P.’s—“and a car took him straight to a minister with whom he had private business,” according to a well-placed source. “Then he went straight to Qaddafi.” There he briefed the dictator about what to expect from the new British coalition government led by David Cameron. Afterward, he spent the night at the British ambassador’s residence.

Neither Blair nor the bank will say anything about what he does to justify his salary, either in Libya or elsewhere. Executives at other banks with Libyan interests say that J.P. Morgan now handles much of the Libyan Investment Authority’s cash, and some of the Libyan central bank’s reserves.

Original article here.

Who remembers the Armenians now?

David Aaronovitch on Twitter supporting the idea of getting NATO to intervene in Libya and going back to earlier interventions shows his characteristic attitude towards the finer details of international law:

In any case, who was prosecuted after Kosovo?

Or: we need to do something about the Libyan situation: bombing is something, so let’s do it. It’s telling that an old cheerleader of intervention like Aaronovitch would get all gung-ho on Libya, but not Egypt or Yemen or Bahrain and without being in the least bit chastised by what happened in Kosovo, Afghanistan and Iraq that would make lesser mortals wary of trying yet another round of “bomb them into democracy”. It’s hard to imagine something more likely to help Khadaffi stay in power than being attacked by America and NATO. The hubris on display here is breathtaking.

Aaronovitch Watch calls it a day

With David behind the Times paywall from next month, there’s no point in continuing:

As CC says below, the Times is going to go paywall at the end of this month, and that seems to us like a natural point to bring “Aaronovitch Watch” to a close. Whatever the ease or otherwise of getting Aaro’s weekly column on the down-low, the fact is that with his disappearance behind the paywall he’s going to be a less influential and less important columnist – with the passing of New Labour as well, this was always going to be the case anyway.

In the wider “World of Decency”, I also feel that a historical moment has largely passed by. There are still imperial wars out there, of course, still ludicrous double standards on human rights and even the New Labour project is not 100% dead yet. And Harry’s Place and Normblog and all will presumably continue to be as ghastly as they ever were, while Nick Cohen is unlikely to shut up as he is to ever write a readable column again. And all of these baleful social phenomena will still have their crowd of cheerleaders from a soi-Decent Left perspective, with willyoucondemnathons and all. But, well, do you care as much as you did five years ago? I know I don’t. If we carry this thing on beyond its natural life, it’s almost certain to end up as another site about bloody Israel.

I’m not sure if Aaronovitch behind a paywall will actually matter all that much. His influence lies in the Westminister political and media cliques, who read The Times as part of their jobs, not with people reading him for free on the interwebs when they should be doing their real jobs. In any case Aaronovitch Watch will be missed, not just as a quick way to keep up with the English Decents, but also as a community — often the comments are the best part of the posts. But they’re probably right to quit now, as circumstances have indeed changed and the emphasis in both UK and US politics will be on economics, rather than foreign adventurism. It’s not just the Decents that have become irrelevant, but the liberal/socialist/sane tory coalition that opposed them is ending the end of its natural life as well. The wars on Iraq and slightly less so, Afghanistan were easy to oppose because we all agreed they were bad, if not always for the same reasons. With the economic crisis however you talk about core differences between liberals and socialists, if only on whether some measure or reform is enough to stabilise the system or whether or not a radical revision is needed.

Your Happening World (15)

Easter weekend happenings:

  • The Dutch government has released (almost) its entire internet presence under a Creative Commons Zero licence, putting it in the public domain. As Dutch internet law expert Arnoud Engelfriet explains (in Dutch, natch), they didn’t need to do this as by law any government work is in the public domain, but this makes it explicit.
  • A few days ago Nick Cohen was busy upbraidign an obscure student for publishing a thesis critical of the work of Canadian Women for Women in Afghanistan. This after he helped smear Amnesty International not a mere two months ago. Now he’s after Joanna Lumley for erm helping the Ghurka veterans getting their pensions. There’s no pleasing the guy.
  • Christian wannabe-terrorists are weird.
  • Jamie points out that being shocked at Catholic Church officials comparing the uproar about pedo priests to anti-semitism is just what they want. The discussion now revolves around what the Church says instead of what it does…
  • Lenny on the role the courts play in the class war.